Tom colvin speaker workshop
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Users browsing this forum: abmdaeokl, dabcckoq, Google [Bot] and 10 guests. Ads are not permitted. My name is Casey and this is my first post here. I've built assembled a couple of pedals and Dr. I figured I would buy an old simple guitar tube amp to start to learn how to service my own tube amps.
I found a really cool looking amp locally at a really nice price. Unknowingly I bought a much more complex project than intended. After doing some research I was lead to this forum Threads posted by Nodric and found out that this GEBS amp has an electro dynamic field coil speaker. I guess it's closer to an old tube radio that what is thought to be a guitar tube amp? As Nodric previously mentioned there is no schematic to be found on the internet.
It would let me post the link to Nodric's thread. This amp worked when I got it. The speaker had dry rotted and was falling apart. The coil had also pulled to one side and was rubbing. I had Tom Colvin at Speaker Workshop re-cone the speaker. Before I removed the speaker I labelled the wires with masking tape and took a picture to ensure I'd be wiring everything back where it was.
Long story short - after making sure I put the wires back as they were - the speaker is blown. I confirmed this will Tom Colvin over the phone. I'm sending the speaker back to Tom Colvin to be re-coned. What I can do to not kill the speaker again? The caps have all been replaced by someone before I got the amp. When the amp is powered up, the center pole on the coil will become magnetic and pull on an 4mm Allen wrench.
It's not a super strong pull but it will hold the Allen wrench to the side of the coil protector until I turn the amp off. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated! EDIT: Also since my wires are so old is it possible that something was arcing through the cloth of the wires? I say this because on my first speaker test after it quit working: I connected some alligator leads to the speaker wires that were still soldered to the output transformer to test the speaker with a 9 volt battery and noticed I was getting arcing between the wires of the output transformer wherever they touched.
I realize now this was probably a very bad idea but it does show me that the cloth on my wires is probably not good anymore? Maybe something arced between the wires and that fried my speaker coil? Re: GEBS Lap Steel Amp questions by lorenzw » Nov Fri 13, pm I can't think of how your speaker could have had its voice coil "blown" unless 1 it was connected incorrectly; or 2 there was a fault in the output transformer that leaked high-voltage DC from the primary onto the secondary winding.
Of these two possibilities, 1 seems far more likely. Where is the output transformer physically located on this set Also, does the speaker have a humbucking winding? Re: GEBS Lap Steel Amp questions by JiveJust » Nov Fri 13, pm lorenzw wrote: I can't think of how your speaker could have had its voice coil "blown" unless 1 it was connected incorrectly; or 2 there was a fault in the output transformer that leaked high-voltage DC from the primary onto the secondary winding.
Does that mean one of the wires coming out of the output transformer is a center tap? Usual practice was to tie the center tap connection to one of the wires going to the field. The highest resistance will be at the winding ends these go to the 6F6 plates and should be hundreds of ohms.
The other two measurements will be roughly half of the end-to-end measurement and probably won't be exactly equal You can deduce the center tap wire from this info. And would that have killed the speaker if I hooked it up with the polarity reversed? The speaker itself is absolutely insensitive to polarity as it is an AC-only machine. I realize now this was probably a very bad idea but does that show me that the cloth on my wires is probably not good anymore?
Applying a 9V DC potential to the secondary winding would cause the output transformer to act as a "step-up" transformer, with a consequential high voltage pulse across the primary winding. That might cause the primary insulation to break down, but doesn't really represent how the transformer is supposed to work in normal operation. Doesn't rule out the possibility of a primary-to-secondary short on the output transformer but that can easily be assessed with an ohmmeter: either secondary wire should read infinite ohms with respect to any terminal on the primary side.
It might be good to make this story a tiny bit longer by revealing just what "blown" might mean. We can guess, but we might guess wrong. Did you check the speaker windings for continuity? Re: GEBS Lap Steel Amp questions by lorenzw » Nov Fri 13, pm "I desoldered the voice coil from the output transformer and then checked impedance and continuity with my multimeter. I didn't get anything on either test.
Also when I gently press on the speaker cone it makes a terrible scratchy sound. I was asking for more detail in hopes that somehow the speaker actually might still be OK, but sounds as if it isn't.
Oh, well If the voice coil is open and something is dragging, you probably need more than just a cone. Hope your guy can repair it. I doubt if a newer sort of replacement speaker will sound the same as the old one. At the least, use an ohmmeter to verify the hookup before powering the unit again. We can walk you through this. It might be worth investing in a power resistor and finding a PM speaker to use for initial testing.
The resistor is to use in place of the field coil, since this is lacking on the PM speaker. Might apply to a tire, fuse, or your chances for catching the pretty girl. Thus my request for more information. Using technical jargon can nail it down better. Unfortunately the commonly accepted meaning of terms tends to drift over time, so often even more questions are needed to find out just what is meant. The power resistor to replace the speaker field coil should be about the same DC resistance as the field coil.
The power rating should be several times the power it will see when the amplifier is running. This may require some estimation. I'm thinking 20W to 50W? The speaker need not be an especially wonderful one, something from the pile in the basment? It does not really have to match particularly closely in size or impedance to serve for a smoke test.. Search thru some Fender and Gibson schematics for one that shows the 6N7 with either 6V6 or 6F6 push-pull output.
Then adjust the resistor and cap values. It at least will serve as a guide. The field coil circuit does two things - the coil acts as a choke, which is part of a filter consisting of two capacitors with the coil between.
High DC voltage from the rectifier flows thru this coil, then with the ripple smoothed out, goes to the plates of the 6F6's. A field coil can sometimes test ok to an ohmmeter but will break down and arc when volts is applied to it Under the cloth there is a rubber insulation that dries out and cracks. Replace and repair with heat shrink tubing. The new power resistor will take the place of the choke, between the filter caps.
It will get hot, so mount it where it won't burn anything. As Ted says, use a 1 K ohm, or can be to ohms, and 20 Watts or larger.
It doesn't need to match the coil exactly. If the amp hums when all done, increase the value of the second filter cap. You're compensating for the loss of the choke. Too bad about the original speaker, but it might come back fixed.
I've read that one repair shop won't touch them for reconing, why? Watch the doughnut, not the hole. Burl Ives, RIP, oldtimer. Caps were costly in those days. Tube data for the 83V shows the max value for the first filter cap is 40 mfd. So you could use a 22 mfd on the DC output of the tube, then the resistor or field coil, then a 47 mfd for the second filter, just a suggestion. No harm in trying the original values first but it might hum louder than you'd like.
The second cap can be increased if needed. Put a fuse inline with the power cord if it doesn't have one, 0. Also feel or use a laser thermometer for heat over time while it's just sitting there under power. First time you apply power, keep the rectifier tube out for a while. Check voltage and check for heat. You could buy a replacement rectifier tube to protect the old 83V tube while you are testing the amp.
Solid state diodes on a plug are good for bench work. Build a dim bulb tester from an extension cord. It will glow bright if there's a fault in the amp, dim if the current draw is healthy.
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Speaker Workshop in Fort Wayne, Indiana
Alexander wanted to become an engineer, but he says that he met people who were much more passionate about it than he was. He realised he needed to discover his own spark and found it in HR. She is a regular mentor and career coach in the startup community as well as a mental health coach. He has published over articles and book chapters and over 30 books. He edited Human Resource Management , served on editorial board of 4 Journal and on the Board of Directors for Herman Miller 16 years , has spoken to large audiences in 90 countries; performed workshops for over half of the Fortune ; coached successful business leaders, and is a Distinguished Fellow in the National Academy of Human Resources. He is known for continually learning, turning complex ideas into simple solutions, and creating real value to those he works with in three fields: Organization, Leadership and Human Resources. A lifetime of reinvention! Hamira is a clinical neuropsychologist turned strategy consultant and recently moved into HR. Ben is passionate about sourcing, growing and developing talents.
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Absolute best Jensen recones?
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Police investigate theft of ‘museum quality’ amp
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University of Chicago, Department of Chemistry November 07, Links: Seminar Abstract. University of Rochester, Department of Chemistry November 06,
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